Juan Viejo2

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Posts by Juan Viejo2

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  43

  Menlo Park Kingdom Hall 3

  by Juan Viejo2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  for those of you that have been following the ongoing story of the forced take over of the menlo park, california kingdom hall, please go to:.

  http://ex-jw.com/fear-and-loathing-in-menlo-park.

  i'm sorry, the article is still a little rough and still needs a lot of editing, but i wanted to get it up by today at the latest.

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  Juan Viejo2

  Rebel8 - RE: Gerrymandering.

  That was my use of the term. Yes, it is a political term and dates back to the 1800s. It was used by "carpetbaggers" after the Civil War to create unbeatable voting districts.

  California and Texas were famous during the '60s and '70s for creating voting districts that had no relationship to reality and only provided safe havens for incumbents. Districts that were one mile wide and 100 miles long, stuff like that.

  My point in the article was that it is obvious that Menlo Park was located so that all of the black Witnesses would be locked into one corner of the region, thereby keeping the upper-scale areas of Redwood City and Palo Alto "lily white." Yes, this is a tactic used by churches, but if the Watchtower is supposed to lead the brothers and sisters without regard to their color or ethnicity, it is clear that the WTBS is not as "color-blind" as it appears to be.

  I'm sure that we will get many comments on this particular issue - maybe even heated ones.

  In the article, I mentioned that as a teenager I saw this very thing happen in my area of Riverside, CA in the late 1950s and 60s - the same time frame as Menlo Park. I went to the Riverside Central Kingdom Hall at 5th and Park, an old Pentecostal church that had been bought and paid for. Like Menlo Park, the WT didn't give us a dime and we paid the mortgage and every bill entirely from local funds. It was on the east side of the railroad tracks, in an old neighborhood just blocks from warehouses and fruit packing plants. Although my family was white, we lived right next to the black, Mexican and Asian neighborhoods of Riverside.

  Two new construction Kingdom Halls were built within a few miles of each other in the south Riverside communities of Magnolia Center and Arlington. The dividing lines were set far enough away from their locations so that there would be no chance of any minorities going to those Halls. I remember visiting those halls in those days and realizing that everyone was white, while my KH was about 50/50. Of course, within a few years, the minorities busted out of that old ghetto and moved all over the city -so the issue became moot.

  Los Angeles was a classic situation, very much like the Menlo Park situation. Kingdom Halls would be within a few blocks of each other, but one would be primarily white and the other mostly black. They even set up early "assembly halls" that followed the same pattern.

  JV
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  43

  Menlo Park Kingdom Hall 3

  by Juan Viejo2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  for those of you that have been following the ongoing story of the forced take over of the menlo park, california kingdom hall, please go to:.

  http://ex-jw.com/fear-and-loathing-in-menlo-park.

  i'm sorry, the article is still a little rough and still needs a lot of editing, but i wanted to get it up by today at the latest.

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  Juan Viejo2

  Stuck - There is a newspaper reporter working on this story. We share leads. They won't talk to me because I'm an exxie apostate. They don't want to talk to her because they're afraid that if it looks like they made the internal fight public, they would get punished for that. Of course they filed a law suit in Federal District Court (all filings are public domain), so I don't know why talking to a legitimate reporter would make anything worse. So yes, there may be a newspaper article coming out sometime soon.

  Moshe - I took that photo and others. Actually the signs are quite substantial and look like they are fairly new. They are just very thin. Look at the larger carved sign - someone put some righteous work into those. No, the building is well taken care of and looks nice. You can see why the existing congregation and elder body did not want to spend a lot of money on upgrades and refurbish. I haven't been inside, but my contacts tell me that it is in decent condition. The biggest problem with the location is that the street is just two lanes with a blind curve (enlarge the map and you'll see what I mean. I have no idea where everyone parks, especially in the evenings when all the neighbors are home. There's room for maybe six cars in the lot in back and maybe a dozen cars parked along the street on either side. This is definitely not a location where you want a combined congregation of 125-200 members.

  Rebel8 - They did go to the police. They went to the DA. Neither wanted to get involved and basically told the local JWs that it was a civil case and involved religious issues. They suggested that they file a civil law suit. And that's what they did and that seems to be their only option. Realistically their chances are slim because they do not have any real legal representation, just the advisor. So they are outmanned and outgunned - and the court will most likely rule that church ownership disagreements are church matters. They'd have a better chance of winning if they actually sued for damages, but these elders do not want to "hurt the Watchtower Society in any way." They can't seem to get it in their heads that the Watchtower wants to squash them like irritating little gnats and be done with them.

  JV
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  12

  WT's idea of Disaster Relief

  by Juan Viejo2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.jw-media.org/jpn/20110316.htm.

  "in cooperation with local authorities and other relief agencies, the witnesses arranged to help meet the immediate needs of their fellow worshippers and other victims in japan, establishing three teams to help organize disaster relief.

  these teams are working diligently to contact congregations of jehovahs witnesses in the devastated areas and care for the spiritual, physical, and material needs of their fellow believers.

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  Juan Viejo2

  http://www.jw-media.org/jpn/20110316.htm

  "In cooperation with local authorities and other relief agencies, the Witnesses arranged to help meet the immediate needs of their fellow worshippers and other victims in Japan, establishing three teams to help organize disaster relief. These teams are working diligently to contact congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the devastated areas and care for the spiritual, physical, and material needs of their fellow believers. The Witnesses’ international relief efforts are being coordinated from their world headquarters in Brooklyn. The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is caring for these expenses by utilizing funds donated to the Witnesses’ worldwide work."

  Like Haiti, it's not relief for the VICTIMS of the disaster. It's for "fellow worshippers" and "fellow believers."

  Very telling news release...

  JV
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  43

  Menlo Park Kingdom Hall 3

  by Juan Viejo2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  for those of you that have been following the ongoing story of the forced take over of the menlo park, california kingdom hall, please go to:.

  http://ex-jw.com/fear-and-loathing-in-menlo-park.

  i'm sorry, the article is still a little rough and still needs a lot of editing, but i wanted to get it up by today at the latest.

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  Juan Viejo2

  For those of you that have been following the ongoing story of the forced take over of the Menlo Park, California Kingdom Hall, please go to:

  http://ex-jw.com/fear-and-loathing-in-menlo-park

  I'm sorry, the article is still a little rough and still needs a lot of editing, but I wanted to get it up by today at the latest. The two plaintiffs in this case are supposed to have met with the defendants and their attorney today in a court ordered arbitration and deposition meeting.

  If you manage to read through all of the very long article, you will see that all of the following come to play in this story:

  An historical pattern of racism in both large cities and smaller communities by Watchtower leaders.

  Nepotism and favoritism for some, strict and unbending adherence to the rules for others.

  Clear evidence of gerrymandering in the location of Kingdom Halls and the assignment of servants/elders.

  There is so much going on with this case that sometimes it is hard to get my hands around everything. About the time I think I've got a clear vision of the story, I get a phone call or email that tosses a new wrench into the mix.

  As soon as I get some feedback on any arbitration results, I'll post an update.

  One thing that came out of this investigation was that the existing membership of the Menlo Park Kingdom Hall (prior to the merger with Redwood City) was divided on the administration of the long-time elders. Some felt they were loving, selfless and devoted servants to the congregation. A minority felt that the elders had become entrenched and often arbitrary. I heard an unconfirmed rumor that a Spanish language congregation moved out of that Kingdom Hall and shared space with another Spanish language Hall in Redwood City. They felt they were treated unfairly and did not like the leadership of Menlo Park.

  

  There is a Japanese congregation that meets there too, but they seem to be keeping a VERY low profile.

  I also received information from two unrelated sources that there had been "bad blood" between the leadership of Redwood City and Menlo Park that went back for many years. You'll see a comment in the article where I was told that Redwood City had been trying to take over that hall for years.

  I'll let you know as soon as I get more info. Feel free to post your comments here or over there, or both. You'll see that I also have received support from JWs and ex-JWs in Spain that might be quite wide-spread.

  JV
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  123

  Translating the NWT in the Shadows

  by JuanMiguel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  note: the following is not meant to be construed as a recommendation but to demonstrate the sharp contrast between any authentic bible translation and the new world translation.

  for those of us who participate and or read the threads on this board, i understand and appreciate that all here have different views on religion, the existence of god, and of the catholic church.

  i believe each individuals convictions should be treated with the utmost respect and dignity.

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  Juan Viejo2

  Juan Miguel - you wrote: " Hola, JuanViejo. Soy Juan Joven! LOL

  Great info, from Juan to another (we could have a show together called 'Juan on Juan with Juan Viejo and Juan Miguel.' "

  I love it. Very creative play on words. Unfortunately, I am just a plain vanilla, white-bread gringo with two years of high school Spanish. So our discussion would have to be in basic West Coast USA English for me to understand anything you said.

  "Juan Joven" - I love it!

  I am Juan Viejo because I am literally "Old John." My avatar is that of Alphonso Bedoya, perhaps the most famous of all Mexican bandidos in movie history. While he came off as a simple-minded fellow in his movie rolls, he was well-liked and admired among his actor friends. They all said that he could be very intimidating one minute and soft as jello the next. Everyone said he had a great heart and was a loyal friend. That's why I chose him to represent me.

  Of course, I am also known as "ExJWdotCommie" on some other forums. But that is an entirely different story.

  I think your presentation of this subject is one of the best ever in connection with Bible translation and the backroom politics connected with the process. The Watchtower is not well-known publicly for its politicking behind closed doors, but those who have been close to Bethel are well aware that it is present and has a long history among the leadership of the Society. It's not about holy spirit guiding them; it's all about who can benefit their own career in the Society.

  JV

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  42

  The JW funeral talk outline - poor taste or REALLY poor taste?

  by Mr. Falcon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i attended a funeral for a jw who passed away (non-"annointed) and i would have to state that although i have heard the standard funeral talk outline for dozens of funerals i've attended, i never really took the time to listen.

  and my god, i was cringing.

  the outline is essentially broken down like this:.

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  Juan Viejo2

  Rub,

  I think some of it has to do with where the funeral takes place. If the memorial service is in a mortuary or in a community center, then I think the family and the speaker have more latitude. But if the service is held in a Kingdom Hall, as my father's was, they have little or no latitude and must go strictly by the outline. The outline even shows something like 5 minutes to discuss the deceased.

  JV
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  42

  The JW funeral talk outline - poor taste or REALLY poor taste?

  by Mr. Falcon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i attended a funeral for a jw who passed away (non-"annointed) and i would have to state that although i have heard the standard funeral talk outline for dozens of funerals i've attended, i never really took the time to listen.

  and my god, i was cringing.

  the outline is essentially broken down like this:.

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  Juan Viejo2

  I specifically wrote a short eulogy, about 7 or 8 minutes, about my father. At the beginning, I wrote a dry, standard local newspaper style eulogy (born, died, survivors, number of grandchildren, etc.) and then followed up with:

  "That would be what a newspaper would report about Brother X. But there is so much more to know about his life (went to school during the depression, served in WW2 but never carried a gun, brought up three kids and numerous grandkids that all lovingly called him "XX", loved to fish, loved to play catch with his boys, etc.). Although his life was pretty normal and he faced no great tragedies or anything, he had his funny little quirks and sayings that made everyone love him such as: Etc., etc., etc."

  I went over it with the brother that gave the talk and was sure he understood what the family wanted. He was supposedly a family friend, so we counted on him to follow our wishes. He took the short eulogy I had written and slipped it into his Bible.

  He got up and promptly read the part that included the very short newspaper eulogy that I had used as an example - and then went directly into his Watchtower outlined talk. Sitting in the audience I wanted to stand up and yell out, "Read the rest of it, damn it!"

  I could not have been any more angry about what he did - and if I was a violent man he would have spent some time in a hospital after that little episode. If he wasn't going to use it, then he should have said so right up front that he could or would not and maybe we could have printed a bio or something out to pass out afterwards.

  So typical of the Watchtower. To hell with the family. Just follow the freakin' outline...

  Bastards!!!

  JV
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  26

  30th Anniversary of the Free Minds Journal

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  30th anniversary of the free minds journal.

  sunday, 13 march 2011 22:09well my friend chaton and i just finished sealing the last envelope of the 30th anniversary issue of the free minds journal.

  i guess it must be one of the longest cult-related journals running.

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  Juan Viejo2

  30 years and you haven't managed to get everyone out of the Watchtower cult yet? What's wrong over there at Freeminds?

  As one of your admirers, I know that your efforts have been fruitful. So many people that contact my site comment that they started thinking for themselves after they found your site. So many, including myself, have been encouraged to express themselves and announce their doubts thanks to reading Freeminds.

  I know it's against the rules, and Jehovah hates it, and that I will most certainly get nailed at Armageddon, but I'm going to do it anyway:

  HAPPY BIRTHDAY, FREEMINDS!!!

  JV
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  123

  Translating the NWT in the Shadows

  by JuanMiguel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  note: the following is not meant to be construed as a recommendation but to demonstrate the sharp contrast between any authentic bible translation and the new world translation.

  for those of us who participate and or read the threads on this board, i understand and appreciate that all here have different views on religion, the existence of god, and of the catholic church.

  i believe each individuals convictions should be treated with the utmost respect and dignity.

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  Juan Viejo2

  Let's face it. If the writers/translators of the NWT did what my friend stated (got a bunch of recent English and American translations and then rewrite the words of the already translated verses), they were likely to have a fairly reliable translation for 90% of the text they rewrote.

  The issue is on those verses of the NWT that seem to be significantly different from the vast majority. These were the scriptures like John 1:1 where the Watchtower "translators" ignored the vast amount of evidence available and changed the wording to match Watchtower teachings.

  Originally, the NWT used brackets around words that were inserted to clarify meanings or were subject to dispute but seemed to fit within the context. The latest versions of the NWT have removed those brackets - in effect hiding the facts from NWT readers that those words might not be original or were actually added by the WT later.

  JuanMiguel, you've provided a well researched group of essays in this thread. I think what is most important for JWs and former JWs to understand is that the translators of the NWT did not follow all of the normal protocols used by professional Bible scholars and translators. The NWT is a translation by committee made up of non-scholars and non-experts in ancient languages - and that includes Fred Franz.

  The NWT can most closely be compared to this scenario: Several of us from this forum - ATJeff, MadSweeney, Outlaw, Darth Frosty, and me (Juan Viejo) - all get together in a hotel room for six months to compare Bible translations and then come up with our own. None of us know Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Aramaic, Syriac, ancient Egyptian, Hittite, or Phoenician. So each of us grabs a recent translation, plus a Douay and a King James Bible and then we vote on the best way to write each verse.

  Would that add to the inaccuracy of our version? Probably not, if the majority of the translations we were using were relatively accurate. Would the basic themes and teachings of the Bible remain consistent? Well yes, except for maybe a very few where we couldn't agree and had to compromise on some awkward wording of a verse.

  If we published that version of the Bible and told our potential readers, "Hey, this is a version that a bunch of barely literate guys came up with and we think it sounds pretty good. Read it and then decide for yourself," then we'd be honest about what we were selling.

  But if we published our version and then told everyone that we were educated scholars who were expert and proficient in translating ancient dead languages - and we had additional help because we were inspired and guided by God's Holy Spirit - then we would be frauds and liars and would be cheating our readers.

  Let me ask just one more question: When the NWT translators were doing their work, where did they procure their old manuscripts? What ancient depositories or museums did they go to access and study those ancient manuscripts. Who among them went to the Vatican to access the oldest manuscripts of the Latin Vulgate and Septuagint manuscripts? If anyone can answer that, please do.

  The fact is that the NWT translators did all their "translating" behind closed doors at Brooklyn Bethel without benefit of any of the old original manuscripts. And even if they had sent someone to the Vatican or the British Museum or any other repository of ancient manuscripts, there was not one among them that could have read or translated any of those priceless documents.

  The NWT is a sham...

  JV
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  65

  New ex-JW memoir coming out...

  by brizzzy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i don't post a ton here because i'm kinda shy.

  http://www.amazon.com/dp/0373892357?tag=thegirsguitoh-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkcode=as1&creativeasin=0373892357&adid=038ez4bjpam7bcsze5mq&.

  that's the amazon link (which is currently the most affordable, i believe, but it's also available for preorder at b&n, borders, indiebound, and indigo-chapters if you're in canada, if you prefer one of those retailers).. .

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  Juan Viejo2

  Vampire,

  I don' have to show you no stinkin' huevos!!!

  JV